Craig Cackowski 4/2/06 Part 1
Craig Cackowski is a long-time improviser and teacher. He began studying improv in Chicago with Del Close and Charna Halpern during the 90’s, where he was a member of IO teams ‘Mr. Blonde’ and ‘Carl and the Passions,’ as well as the Second City Touring Company, ETC and Main Stage casts. He currently lives in Los Angeles where he is a member of the ‘Armando’ cast and the three person team ‘Dasariski’ with Bob Dassie and Rich Talarico.
JF: Where were you born?
CC: I was born in Alexandria, VA. I lived my whole life, until college, in Woodbridge, VA, which is where my parents still live. I went to the college of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, where I was a Theater major, that’s where I first started doing improv.
JF: How did you get involved with improv there?
CC: There was a college improv group called ‘It’ or ‘I.T.,’ short for ‘Improvisational Theater,’ cleverly enough. They actually had been trained by a group from Yale, Purple Crayon, that had actually been trained by Charna Halpern. So, we did Harolds in college, but a very watered-down, telephone line version of the Harold. We had no idea what we were doing.
I joined the troupe my junior year, after being very intimidated by them my first couple of years. I think I auditioned my sophomore year and didn’t get in. Finally, by my junior year, there were enough of my friends were in the group that were like ‘he’s ok. Let him in.’
JF: What was intimidating about them at the time?
CC: I think it’s like anyone the first time they see improv. I mean, it was a college group doing kind of very regimented Harolds and short-form, so I don’t know how impressive it would be to my eyes now, but everyone in it just seemed so clever and seemed like they were having such a good time. It was daunting in a way the first time anyone sees improv that impresses them in any way.
JF: What were some early influences on your sense of humor?
CC: Probably the typical things any one my age would say [laughs]. Early SNL, the Muppet Show, Steve Martin. Also, my best friend growing up was Tobey Ramese. He had a very similar sensibility to me. He was a little bolder. He was more of the extravert to my introvert. We put up puppet shows [laughs]. We wrote plays and made short films and stuff like that, from the time we were 7 until when we were 17. We wrote songs. We had an album called ‘Dance Music for Italian Rabbis.’
JF: Was it a hit?
CC: It was not a hit, not even in Woodridge. We were just nerdy kids who did our own thing. So, he was a big influence on me as well. I remember one summer we decided to watch ‘Spinal Tap’ every day all summer. I think we gave up after about 30 viewings, but I pretty much have that movie memorized to this day.
JF: Your sister is also a comedian too, right?
CC: Yeah, I have two younger sisters. One is a lawyer and a homemaker, and the other one writes for SNL. She’s the youngest of the family. She’s 8 years younger than me. She kind of followed in my footsteps in Chicago. She went to school at Northwestern and did Second City.
JF: What was your experience like in ‘I.T.?’
CC: I loved it. I was a Theater major, so I was also doing plays and musicals and stuff like that, but the people in ‘I.T.’ were the funniest people there. Even though, like I said, it was short-form, which I really haven’t done since then [laughs], it’s really were I got a taste for improv.
We had a bit of a following. I’m talking about [laughs] 20 people, who came to see every show. I directed it my senior year. That was my first experience being in a position of authority and being a tyrant. I learned a lot about directing from many of the mistakes that I made.
JF: What were some of the mistakes that you made? How did it affect you as a teacher later on?
CC: I was just a dick. I was just way too dictatorial [laughs] and demanding. I would get upset and storm out of rehearsal and things like that. It was probably more of a function of being 21 than anything else. I think people who know me now would be surprised to know I behaved that way. I think I’ve mellowed out considerably over the years.
A big thing about coaching or teaching or directing is also being a psychologist, gauging the mood of the group, dealing with different personalities in different ways, and I didn’t know how to do that at the time.
JF: And you think just experience helped you adjust to that?
CC: Yeah, it’s just experience. I’m a much a better teacher [now.] I’ve been teaching for 11 years now. I started in 95 in Chicago. It’s something I’m really much more comfortable with now. It’s like anything, trial and error. Just like improv on stage, you have to make every mistake there is to make in front of a live audience. [laughs] You have to fail miserable numerous times before something sticks in you mind, [and you’re] like ‘oops, that won’t work.’
JF: What brought you to Chicago?
CC: A friend of mine from my college improv troupe the whole senior year was trying to rally us to all go to Chicago together. He had gone to DePaul for a little bit before transferring to William and Mary. He was a big Second City fan. He really wanted to study there and join the touring company, that was kind of his dream.
Everybody else bailed and it was just me and him. I moved to Chicago in February. I had never been there. He moved there first and got an apartment and everything. It was colder than I had ever imagined. [laughs] I didn’t even know that Improv Olympic existed when I moved there. About a month after moving there, I read an article in the Chicago Tribune about the three big training centers at the time, which were Players Workshop, Second City, and Improv Olympic. It said that Improv Olympic did the Harold and I was like ‘oh, I know the Harold from college, and the classes are only a block away from where I live, so maybe I’ll go study there.’
Then my friend ended up auditioning for the Training Center at Second City, not getting in and then giving up on improv forever. [laughs] Actually, he’s in a group in Honoloulou called ‘Loose Screws.’
JF: Oh, they did some big thing at CIF.
CC: Yeah, I think they’re back at CIF again this year. So, it’s good to see that he’s back in the improv world, because he’s really funny.
JF: What’s his name?
CC: His name is Christopher Obenchain.
JF: So, when you moved to Chicago did you take classes at Second City as well?
CC: No, I never did. I ended up working for them as an actor, but I never studied there. All my training came from Improv Olympic.
JF: You just read that article and decided Improv Olympic was the place you wanted to be?
CC: Improv Olympic seemed like the place to be because it was so close to me. It also said that you could get up and perform right away, or so it was promised, and in my case it ended up being true. I think I got on a team my third class in level 1.
JF: Wow.
CC: Which was not atypical. If you could get a coherent thought together, you were on a team right away. They needed people that desperately. Also, Charna depended on performers to bring their own audience, the more new people she brought in, the more new audience members they would bring in.
JF: What was your impression of Improv Olympic at the time? And what year was this?
CC: It was 1992 when I started. They didn’t have a permanent space. The shows were at a bar called the Wrigleyside, which right by Wrigley Field on Clarke St. It’s now a different bar. It’s changed a couple times since then. Charna rented space upstairs at this bar that was home to bands sometimes. She rented classroom space, also in the Wrigleyfield neighborhood.
There were three levels. Level 1 was Charna. Level 2 was Jon Favreau briefly, and Kevin Dorff, then Miles Stroth started teaching around the same time that I got there. And Level 3 was Del. I got in a play around the same time that I took Level 1, so I ended up not being able to take Level 2, because that night didn’t work for me. Charna was just like ‘alright, you can just go to Del’s class then.’ So I only had two teachers there, Charna and Del. Once you took Del’s class, you could stay with him as long as you wanted. It wasn’t like you did 8 weeks with Del then you graduated. You just stayed there. I think I ended up doing 5 or 6 sessions with Del, so I spent probably about a year with Del.
There were probably about 8 teams at the time. The big teams were the Family and Corky’s Callback, which was Faverau’s team. On the other teams, the same people just kept getting repackaged [and put] on different teams. They changed constantly. I was probably on 5 different teams my first year there, before finding one that stayed together for a while.
JF: So, you literally only had two teachers for improv. Did you have coaches for your teams?
CC: I’ve had a number of good coaches and directors. Adam McKay and Ian Roberts co-coached the first team I was on. I had Ian and Adam again, then Besser was my coach for probably about two years. I had Ali as a sub sometimes, and Dorff. Scott Robinson directed me in a show. Noah Gregoropolous directed me in a couple of shows, so all those people were big influences.
I also studied briefly at the Priven theater in Evanston. That’s [run by] the actor Jermey Priven and his sister Shira, whose married to Adam McKay, their parents, who were part of the original Compass Players at the University of Chicago. They founded this theater in Evanston, which is where all the Cusacks studied and everything. It was mostly kind of actor’s scene study stuff and some improv, but they had one long-form course that was taught by this guy Jim Dennen, who was one of the directors who worked with Jazz Freddy. I studied with him for 8 weeks. It was around the time I had done about a year with Del, and I was looking for a new approach. It was great because it was a more actorly sort of thing, more just about slow and patient work, character study, that sort of thing, so that influenced my style a lot, that and the stuff I learned at IO.
JF: What were some things that were emphasized in the classes at IO, especially with Del?
CC: I should say first that Charna is a very good introductory teacher. I thought I knew the Harold in college, and I thought I knew some of the games like ‘Pet Peeve Rant,’ and stuff like that, but it was great to have this intro class with her, where I had some kind of instant proficiency at it from doing it a little bit in college. She really emphasized playing at the top of your intelligence, taking care of your partner, making each other look good, listening and reacting, all the basics. Stuff that we kind of stumbled upon or never really knew in college, that was emphasized right away.
Del was someone who was always pushing the envelope. Many times since studying with Del, I’ll sometimes think that I’ve come up with an original idea, or an insight will hit me in the middle of teaching a class, then I’ll go back and look at some of the things that Del wrote or some of the notes that students of his have posted online and I’m like ‘oh yeah, that’s Del. Del said that. It’s not an original thought with me.’ [laughs] Everything we do can be traced back to him. To me, it’s like if you had the opportunity to study Quantum Physics with Einstein. He created what we do.He was always experimenting with new forms. He didn’t tolerate any bullshit or cutesiness or trying to be funny. He was much more interested in real people than actors and comedians. Some of his favorite students would be just like crazy people. [laughs] There was a guy who was deaf who was a prison electrician. Those were the kind of guys who were Del’s favorite students.
JF: [laughs] That was in your class, the deaf prison electrician?
CC: He was around the same time as me. I don’t think we were ever in the same class at the same time.
JF: What was your first experience like on a Harold team?
CC: It’s all a blur because there were so many teams and we performed so infrequently. You probably had a show a month. They had just added Thursday, which was a big deal at the time. I think two teams went up on Thursday, two on Friday and two on Saturday. The Family, being the house team, would get to play on both Friday and Saturday. The other teams had to [deal with the remaining slots.] We rehearsed weekly, but it was hard to make progress having shows so rarely. Most of the people from my first few teams did a couple of shows then were never heard from again. [laughs] It was a real revolving door back in those days.
My fourth or fifth team, Mr. Blonde, was the first team I was on that got to stay together for a while. We had a consistent coach in Besser. We had a bunch of people who really wanted to work hard and get good as a team. We started to get more play dates. That was the first team I really remember as identifying as ‘my team.’
JF: What did you learn on Mr. Blonde? How did it change you as a performer?
CC: I think the focus and commitment of the group, and the fact that Besser really pushed us to get better and set the bar high for us [effected me]. Also, working with Noah later, that’s something that I try to do with groups I work with, never let them be satisfied with the level that they’re at now, try to push them a little further.
I think we were trying to make the Harolds thematic back then. Really dealing with the suggestion and breaking it down in as many ways as possible. I think that’s something that’s gone away a little bit. Sometimes the suggestion’s just a jumping off point and whatever happens happens from there.
I should say that the biggest influence on everyone back at the time was the Family, and the work that they were doing. The Family was [Matt] Besser, Ian [Roberts], [Adam] McKay, Miles [Stroth], Ali [Faranakian], and Neil Flynn. They were just amazing. Del directed them in a show called Three Mad Rituals. They did three forms in a two hour show. They did the Deconstruction, the Movie and the Harold all off of one suggestion. It was really a marathon performance, but those guys were up for it.
It was a really great time to study, because it really seemed like kind of underground thing. There weren’t many audiences. Most of the audience was improvisers. We were in this crappy space upstairs of a bar. Nobody at IO worked at Second City. It seemed like that was a whole other world, and none of us would ever have a chance to work there. So, the people who were doing it back then just really did it because they loved it. They didn’t see any future in it career-wise or money-wise. It was all just about doing the work and experimenting and trying to get better at it.
JF: What kind of impact did the Family make on you personally? Why were they so great?
CC: Obviously, they’re really strong as individuals, just hearing their names. They were incredibly intelligent. They had a great spirit of anarchy. They didn’t give a shit. They did what they liked to do, what they believed in. They had a good sense of competitiveness too. I opened for them many times on whatever Harold team I was on, and no matter whatever show we had they would always be a little bit better. If we had the best show we’d ever had, they would be better than that. If we had a crappy show, eh, they would have a decent show. [laughs]
Everyone just brought something different to the table. Adam McKay was probably my favorite, because he was so verbally skilled. Words would come flowing out of his mouth like poetry. Neil Flynn and Ian Roberts just incredible actors, and would kind of react to the insanity going on around them. Besser just kind of the wild card. Like I said, they were competitive with other teams. They were competitive with each other. They were friends but they would also get into fights. It seemed like one of them was always mad at another one for some reason, but they put all that aside, put their egos aside and would really work as a team in the show. Ego was not a factor in the show. They always worked as a unit.
JF: Where were you born?
CC: I was born in Alexandria, VA. I lived my whole life, until college, in Woodbridge, VA, which is where my parents still live. I went to the college of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia, where I was a Theater major, that’s where I first started doing improv.
JF: How did you get involved with improv there?
CC: There was a college improv group called ‘It’ or ‘I.T.,’ short for ‘Improvisational Theater,’ cleverly enough. They actually had been trained by a group from Yale, Purple Crayon, that had actually been trained by Charna Halpern. So, we did Harolds in college, but a very watered-down, telephone line version of the Harold. We had no idea what we were doing.
I joined the troupe my junior year, after being very intimidated by them my first couple of years. I think I auditioned my sophomore year and didn’t get in. Finally, by my junior year, there were enough of my friends were in the group that were like ‘he’s ok. Let him in.’
JF: What was intimidating about them at the time?
CC: I think it’s like anyone the first time they see improv. I mean, it was a college group doing kind of very regimented Harolds and short-form, so I don’t know how impressive it would be to my eyes now, but everyone in it just seemed so clever and seemed like they were having such a good time. It was daunting in a way the first time anyone sees improv that impresses them in any way.
JF: What were some early influences on your sense of humor?
CC: Probably the typical things any one my age would say [laughs]. Early SNL, the Muppet Show, Steve Martin. Also, my best friend growing up was Tobey Ramese. He had a very similar sensibility to me. He was a little bolder. He was more of the extravert to my introvert. We put up puppet shows [laughs]. We wrote plays and made short films and stuff like that, from the time we were 7 until when we were 17. We wrote songs. We had an album called ‘Dance Music for Italian Rabbis.’
JF: Was it a hit?
CC: It was not a hit, not even in Woodridge. We were just nerdy kids who did our own thing. So, he was a big influence on me as well. I remember one summer we decided to watch ‘Spinal Tap’ every day all summer. I think we gave up after about 30 viewings, but I pretty much have that movie memorized to this day.
JF: Your sister is also a comedian too, right?
CC: Yeah, I have two younger sisters. One is a lawyer and a homemaker, and the other one writes for SNL. She’s the youngest of the family. She’s 8 years younger than me. She kind of followed in my footsteps in Chicago. She went to school at Northwestern and did Second City.
JF: What was your experience like in ‘I.T.?’
CC: I loved it. I was a Theater major, so I was also doing plays and musicals and stuff like that, but the people in ‘I.T.’ were the funniest people there. Even though, like I said, it was short-form, which I really haven’t done since then [laughs], it’s really were I got a taste for improv.
We had a bit of a following. I’m talking about [laughs] 20 people, who came to see every show. I directed it my senior year. That was my first experience being in a position of authority and being a tyrant. I learned a lot about directing from many of the mistakes that I made.
JF: What were some of the mistakes that you made? How did it affect you as a teacher later on?
CC: I was just a dick. I was just way too dictatorial [laughs] and demanding. I would get upset and storm out of rehearsal and things like that. It was probably more of a function of being 21 than anything else. I think people who know me now would be surprised to know I behaved that way. I think I’ve mellowed out considerably over the years.
A big thing about coaching or teaching or directing is also being a psychologist, gauging the mood of the group, dealing with different personalities in different ways, and I didn’t know how to do that at the time.
JF: And you think just experience helped you adjust to that?
CC: Yeah, it’s just experience. I’m a much a better teacher [now.] I’ve been teaching for 11 years now. I started in 95 in Chicago. It’s something I’m really much more comfortable with now. It’s like anything, trial and error. Just like improv on stage, you have to make every mistake there is to make in front of a live audience. [laughs] You have to fail miserable numerous times before something sticks in you mind, [and you’re] like ‘oops, that won’t work.’
JF: What brought you to Chicago?
CC: A friend of mine from my college improv troupe the whole senior year was trying to rally us to all go to Chicago together. He had gone to DePaul for a little bit before transferring to William and Mary. He was a big Second City fan. He really wanted to study there and join the touring company, that was kind of his dream.
Everybody else bailed and it was just me and him. I moved to Chicago in February. I had never been there. He moved there first and got an apartment and everything. It was colder than I had ever imagined. [laughs] I didn’t even know that Improv Olympic existed when I moved there. About a month after moving there, I read an article in the Chicago Tribune about the three big training centers at the time, which were Players Workshop, Second City, and Improv Olympic. It said that Improv Olympic did the Harold and I was like ‘oh, I know the Harold from college, and the classes are only a block away from where I live, so maybe I’ll go study there.’
Then my friend ended up auditioning for the Training Center at Second City, not getting in and then giving up on improv forever. [laughs] Actually, he’s in a group in Honoloulou called ‘Loose Screws.’
JF: Oh, they did some big thing at CIF.
CC: Yeah, I think they’re back at CIF again this year. So, it’s good to see that he’s back in the improv world, because he’s really funny.
JF: What’s his name?
CC: His name is Christopher Obenchain.
JF: So, when you moved to Chicago did you take classes at Second City as well?
CC: No, I never did. I ended up working for them as an actor, but I never studied there. All my training came from Improv Olympic.
JF: You just read that article and decided Improv Olympic was the place you wanted to be?
CC: Improv Olympic seemed like the place to be because it was so close to me. It also said that you could get up and perform right away, or so it was promised, and in my case it ended up being true. I think I got on a team my third class in level 1.
JF: Wow.
CC: Which was not atypical. If you could get a coherent thought together, you were on a team right away. They needed people that desperately. Also, Charna depended on performers to bring their own audience, the more new people she brought in, the more new audience members they would bring in.
JF: What was your impression of Improv Olympic at the time? And what year was this?
CC: It was 1992 when I started. They didn’t have a permanent space. The shows were at a bar called the Wrigleyside, which right by Wrigley Field on Clarke St. It’s now a different bar. It’s changed a couple times since then. Charna rented space upstairs at this bar that was home to bands sometimes. She rented classroom space, also in the Wrigleyfield neighborhood.
There were three levels. Level 1 was Charna. Level 2 was Jon Favreau briefly, and Kevin Dorff, then Miles Stroth started teaching around the same time that I got there. And Level 3 was Del. I got in a play around the same time that I took Level 1, so I ended up not being able to take Level 2, because that night didn’t work for me. Charna was just like ‘alright, you can just go to Del’s class then.’ So I only had two teachers there, Charna and Del. Once you took Del’s class, you could stay with him as long as you wanted. It wasn’t like you did 8 weeks with Del then you graduated. You just stayed there. I think I ended up doing 5 or 6 sessions with Del, so I spent probably about a year with Del.
There were probably about 8 teams at the time. The big teams were the Family and Corky’s Callback, which was Faverau’s team. On the other teams, the same people just kept getting repackaged [and put] on different teams. They changed constantly. I was probably on 5 different teams my first year there, before finding one that stayed together for a while.
JF: So, you literally only had two teachers for improv. Did you have coaches for your teams?
CC: I’ve had a number of good coaches and directors. Adam McKay and Ian Roberts co-coached the first team I was on. I had Ian and Adam again, then Besser was my coach for probably about two years. I had Ali as a sub sometimes, and Dorff. Scott Robinson directed me in a show. Noah Gregoropolous directed me in a couple of shows, so all those people were big influences.
I also studied briefly at the Priven theater in Evanston. That’s [run by] the actor Jermey Priven and his sister Shira, whose married to Adam McKay, their parents, who were part of the original Compass Players at the University of Chicago. They founded this theater in Evanston, which is where all the Cusacks studied and everything. It was mostly kind of actor’s scene study stuff and some improv, but they had one long-form course that was taught by this guy Jim Dennen, who was one of the directors who worked with Jazz Freddy. I studied with him for 8 weeks. It was around the time I had done about a year with Del, and I was looking for a new approach. It was great because it was a more actorly sort of thing, more just about slow and patient work, character study, that sort of thing, so that influenced my style a lot, that and the stuff I learned at IO.
JF: What were some things that were emphasized in the classes at IO, especially with Del?
CC: I should say first that Charna is a very good introductory teacher. I thought I knew the Harold in college, and I thought I knew some of the games like ‘Pet Peeve Rant,’ and stuff like that, but it was great to have this intro class with her, where I had some kind of instant proficiency at it from doing it a little bit in college. She really emphasized playing at the top of your intelligence, taking care of your partner, making each other look good, listening and reacting, all the basics. Stuff that we kind of stumbled upon or never really knew in college, that was emphasized right away.
Del was someone who was always pushing the envelope. Many times since studying with Del, I’ll sometimes think that I’ve come up with an original idea, or an insight will hit me in the middle of teaching a class, then I’ll go back and look at some of the things that Del wrote or some of the notes that students of his have posted online and I’m like ‘oh yeah, that’s Del. Del said that. It’s not an original thought with me.’ [laughs] Everything we do can be traced back to him. To me, it’s like if you had the opportunity to study Quantum Physics with Einstein. He created what we do.He was always experimenting with new forms. He didn’t tolerate any bullshit or cutesiness or trying to be funny. He was much more interested in real people than actors and comedians. Some of his favorite students would be just like crazy people. [laughs] There was a guy who was deaf who was a prison electrician. Those were the kind of guys who were Del’s favorite students.
JF: [laughs] That was in your class, the deaf prison electrician?
CC: He was around the same time as me. I don’t think we were ever in the same class at the same time.
JF: What was your first experience like on a Harold team?
CC: It’s all a blur because there were so many teams and we performed so infrequently. You probably had a show a month. They had just added Thursday, which was a big deal at the time. I think two teams went up on Thursday, two on Friday and two on Saturday. The Family, being the house team, would get to play on both Friday and Saturday. The other teams had to [deal with the remaining slots.] We rehearsed weekly, but it was hard to make progress having shows so rarely. Most of the people from my first few teams did a couple of shows then were never heard from again. [laughs] It was a real revolving door back in those days.
My fourth or fifth team, Mr. Blonde, was the first team I was on that got to stay together for a while. We had a consistent coach in Besser. We had a bunch of people who really wanted to work hard and get good as a team. We started to get more play dates. That was the first team I really remember as identifying as ‘my team.’
JF: What did you learn on Mr. Blonde? How did it change you as a performer?
CC: I think the focus and commitment of the group, and the fact that Besser really pushed us to get better and set the bar high for us [effected me]. Also, working with Noah later, that’s something that I try to do with groups I work with, never let them be satisfied with the level that they’re at now, try to push them a little further.
I think we were trying to make the Harolds thematic back then. Really dealing with the suggestion and breaking it down in as many ways as possible. I think that’s something that’s gone away a little bit. Sometimes the suggestion’s just a jumping off point and whatever happens happens from there.
I should say that the biggest influence on everyone back at the time was the Family, and the work that they were doing. The Family was [Matt] Besser, Ian [Roberts], [Adam] McKay, Miles [Stroth], Ali [Faranakian], and Neil Flynn. They were just amazing. Del directed them in a show called Three Mad Rituals. They did three forms in a two hour show. They did the Deconstruction, the Movie and the Harold all off of one suggestion. It was really a marathon performance, but those guys were up for it.
It was a really great time to study, because it really seemed like kind of underground thing. There weren’t many audiences. Most of the audience was improvisers. We were in this crappy space upstairs of a bar. Nobody at IO worked at Second City. It seemed like that was a whole other world, and none of us would ever have a chance to work there. So, the people who were doing it back then just really did it because they loved it. They didn’t see any future in it career-wise or money-wise. It was all just about doing the work and experimenting and trying to get better at it.
JF: What kind of impact did the Family make on you personally? Why were they so great?
CC: Obviously, they’re really strong as individuals, just hearing their names. They were incredibly intelligent. They had a great spirit of anarchy. They didn’t give a shit. They did what they liked to do, what they believed in. They had a good sense of competitiveness too. I opened for them many times on whatever Harold team I was on, and no matter whatever show we had they would always be a little bit better. If we had the best show we’d ever had, they would be better than that. If we had a crappy show, eh, they would have a decent show. [laughs]
Everyone just brought something different to the table. Adam McKay was probably my favorite, because he was so verbally skilled. Words would come flowing out of his mouth like poetry. Neil Flynn and Ian Roberts just incredible actors, and would kind of react to the insanity going on around them. Besser just kind of the wild card. Like I said, they were competitive with other teams. They were competitive with each other. They were friends but they would also get into fights. It seemed like one of them was always mad at another one for some reason, but they put all that aside, put their egos aside and would really work as a team in the show. Ego was not a factor in the show. They always worked as a unit.
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