David Pasquesi 11/15/06 Part 1
Dave Pasquesi began his long-form improv study in the early 80's. He was a student of Del Close's, and was in the class where the Harold was developed. He later performed on Barron's Barricudas, Improv Olypmic's first house team. He also performed in the Second City Touring Company and on the Second City Mainstage. He currently lives in Chicago where he performs in the highly regarded two person improv show 'TJ & Dave.'
JF: Where were you born?
DP: Lake Bluff, Illinois.
JF: Is that a small town? Is it close to Chicago?
DP: Yeah, it's a suburb north of Chicago.
JF: What were some early influences on your sense of humor?
DP: The dinner table. My brothers. I used to like some old black and white comedies. I remember being introduced to the Marx Brothers when I was in 7th grade and I just thought that was the best.
JF: Was the comedy of the Marx Brothers and the comedy at the dinner table in a similar vein?
DP: Yeah, the dinner table was pretty much a good time. We had dinner together every night and entertained one another.
JF: When did you know you wanted to be a performer?
DP: That's an interesting question. I'm not sure. I never thought it was a possibility. That was not something that was within the realm of options growing up. I never was on a stage until I was in my 20's.
JF: Why didn't it seem like an option?
DP: It was nothing I ever had any access to. Our families were represented in many different areas, the trades, professions, things like that, but no one was in entertainment. It just wasn't something anyone had experience in.
JF: What did you think your career might be like as a kid or a teenager? Were you drawn to the arts at all?
DP: I wasn't really. I enjoyed goofing around, but I never seriously thought about it. It was something to kind of goof around with, that's all. That's the way it was treated. It was something to do outside, while you're going about the business of your life. That's all there was, so I adopted that attitude as well.
JF: How did you get introduced to improv comedy?
DP: My oldest brother Tom was in Law School and decided to take some improv classes, because he thought it would be useful to him in court, to be more comfortable in front of people. My mother said 'go with him.' I did. This was the Players Workshop at Second City, Joe Forsberg school. I took my first class from Judy Morgan. She was in the cast at Second City with Harold Ramis, John Belushi, Joe Flaherty, Brian Doyle-Murray, one of those great casts. She was excellent herself. She had a real love for improvisation, and I was hooked.
JF: What year was that?
DP: Probably 1980. I was probably 20.
JF: Were you going to school around there?
DP: I was. I was going to Loyola University by that time. I was studying Philosophy.
JF: What influence did that first class or those first classes at Player's Workshop make on you?
DP: It was my introduction. It opened my eyes, then I read the book 'Something Wonderful Right Away' by Jeffrey Sweet. I had always heard of Second City, but I had never seen it. I started becoming a bit of the student of the stuff, because I really was thrilled by it and I never had any experience like that. And Judy Morgan was just the best.
JF: I've heard that the classes at Player's Workshop really focused on the basics. Did you enjoy that or did you become frustrated at some point and want more?
DP: That's all I knew. I didn't know it was the basics. I had nothing else to compare it to. Had I been elsewhere and a bit more experienced before going there, I don't think that's the correct order. I think this was just right. And it's always just the teacher. Depending on who you're with [determines] whether or not you're going to learn anything useful. Judy Morgan was a seasoned performer at Second City and a sketch performer and an improviser, so she was speaking from experience. It's not often that you find that, unfortunately.
JF: Did your experience at Second City start to change what you thought what your career might be?
DP: This little bit? No, I ended up taking the [rest of the Player's Workshop] classes. My brother actually had to take time off because he was in Law School, so I continued on my own. At the end of the class, you do your own little show at Second City on the Mainstage; that was the first stage I was ever on. It was on a Sunday afternoon. You've written your own sketches. It was what it was, and I just loved it. I was also in Loyola at the time. It took over all my time, because it took over all my interest. I didn't care about the classes I was going to, other than improv classes.
JF: Wow. So, when did you start performing on a regular basis? Were there really options to perform?
DP: Oh, that was the end for me. I went to the end, then kind of stopped. We kind of had a little group together out of our class from that, but we never really worked. We never really did anything. We got together a couple of times that was it. I was at Loyola and had to finish that. I ended up going out of the country. ...It's just the weirdest set of circumstances, and coincidences. ...So, I go to Italy to go to school over there for a while, and I meet this guy on the plane, and we ended up being roommates over there, and it's Joel Murray. We ended up performing together for the next 10 years.
I guess the first thing we did over there was beg for money on the streets, doing juggling, then there was a little talent show or something so we wrote a couple sketches. I was supposed to go for a semester and ended up staying a year. When we got back, Joel and I performed a little bit together, then he received some advice from one of his brothers to 'find Del, if you want to continue with this kind of thing.' So, I was the beneficiary of some of advice that Joel got.
We went together to find Del, and we ended up having to audition to get into the classes he was running. I didn't know anything about who Del was, just some guy that Bill Murray said his brother should study with, that was the only thing I knew. We improvised a scene for the class for the other classmates and Del, and we were allowed to stay. That happened to be the time when Del was trying to come up with a long-form improvisation. Up until that point, long-form improvisation was used to generate material in a rehearsal setting. He was trying to come up with a long-form that would be used as a performance in itself.
JF: So you were in that class?
DP: Yes, we were trying to come up with a format that would work as an evening of entertainment. I want to make clear we didn't come up with it. Del came up with it. He just had us try certain things. We were used by him to hone this idea. It's not like we were all sitting around 'hey, how can we do this?' We didn't know what we were doing. We just did what we were told. At least I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe some of these guys did.
JF: So this was the Harold?
DP: Yup, we were doing it for a few months upstairs before it ever got onstage. We were just doing it in workshops, before there was an audience.
JF: What was the Harold like at that early stage?
DP: Del was trying to determine a structure for it. It was easy to be given a specific or obtuse theme, then just to improvise on it, using scenes, monologues and games, then also integrating the idea of the time dash. Those were all the elements that he wanted to be working with, so those were the ideas that we tried. He'd come in with other ideas, like the idea of competition, which he got I believe from reading Greek myths, suggesting that the heroes are only the heroes during battle. You can't be a hero without some sort of extraordinary situation. We can artificially create that situation by calling it a competition. Then [came] the idea of the structure of 3 to 5 scenes, then a game, 3 then scenes then a game, then the final 3 scenes. That's what we ended up with. There was a time when we had somebody as the narrator, standing off [to the side of the stage], not participating as an actor in the scenes, but watching them and being the story-teller, things like that. Trying to determine the right size for the group. It all ended up boiling down to the simple structure of the Harold.
JF: It's interesting. Now when we're taught the Harold, at least when I started, it seems like 'ok, this is it. And this is a really time tested structure,' as if it's scientifically proven, but it seems like you guys were just trying whatever.
DP: Well, it was put together through trial and error, that seemed to be the best way to go about it. The reason that there's a structure is that it seemed to get too scattered. It seemed to wander too much. It's also putting a frame on a picture. We have to work within this frame work. If you don't have a frame, there's no end to the picture. You have to understand structure, before you can break the structure, that too.
JF: So, were there certain things that were obvious failures? Like the competition aspect? Or the narrator?
DP: The competition aspect was actually one that stuck. The narrator did not. The narrator on occassion would be used too, but more in the game rather than in the entire piece. They all kind of evolved into what it has become. Also, the openings, we always had those. When I was starting, we were always trying to figure out the best way to do an opening, because the opening, as we were taught, defines the blocks that you're allowed to build with. You're not allowed to build with anything that wasn't from the opening. Again, there's too many options unless you constrain yourself in some way. There's, therefore, then no focus.
JF: What were some of the openings you guys were working with?
DP: A series of monologues. A word association, which came out of the idea of the missing joke. I don't know if you're familiar with that idea?
JF: No.
DP: You'd go along and you'd do a word association, but rather than saying one person saying 'black' and the next person saying 'white.' You'd skip 'white,' because everyone knows that one. You'd say [something like] 'milk' and skip the white. Del was trying to get us to do not the first thing, but the second equally, more interesting thing, and more honest. We weren't trying to fabricate or be clever about what the next step would be. The first step doesn't get us anywhere. It merely comments on the earlier thing. So this idea was trying to move it forward a step. Does that make sense?
JF: Yeah, it does. Why do you think things like that were important to Del? Were they part of a bigger scheme that he saw for improv? Like trying to go with your subconscious more or something like that?
DP: Well, a lot of it was just pragmatic. I really do think that many of these things were to make it more interesting to everyone involved, the audience and the performer. If we go a, b, c, d, e, that's somewhat interesting, but if we go a, c, f, that's more interesting. [It was] being more respectful to the audience, that they understand.
JF: What happened after there? I heard that Charna Halpern stepped in and helped develop the Harold.
DP: Charna and Del were in business already at this time. Charna was formerly in business with David Shepard, doing the Improv Olympics, then she was hooked up with Del. Del taught class every Monday night, sometimes more. Sometimes there were Wednesday night classes. Once you were accepted into class, you just went. There was no 8 week whatever. He'd collect money every once in a while, but there was no graduation. If you're interested, you're going to be interested in this. Teams were put together to perform this Harold. Even still, we'd get together on Monday nights, and Del would come with new ideas having seen the shows of the week. We'd try those things, and we'd try those things in the subsequent shows. We'd workshop them on Monday and on Wednesday and Saturday we'd try to integrate them into a performance.
JF: Who were some of the people in that early workshop with you?
DP: Joel Murray, Chris Barnes, JJ Jones, Howard Johnson, Honor Finnegan, Mark Beltzman. That was our group. Then there were other folks. Jeff Jenna, a stand-up, Joey Guiteriez, who was a stand-up at the time. He's a big shot tv producer now. Who else was there? Ah, I don't know.
JF: Did you have the feeling you were doing something really adventurous at the time?
DP: No, we just loved it. We didn't really know what we were doing. Everybody was really thrilled by it, and wanted to get better at it. Well, not everybody. The guys that we were hanging around with all did. Then there were people who did it as a lark or a hobby or some thing to do on one night a week. Del said that's great too. I think the idea was the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Magic can occur with this group. It's something that could not occur individually.
JF: Where were you born?
DP: Lake Bluff, Illinois.
JF: Is that a small town? Is it close to Chicago?
DP: Yeah, it's a suburb north of Chicago.
JF: What were some early influences on your sense of humor?
DP: The dinner table. My brothers. I used to like some old black and white comedies. I remember being introduced to the Marx Brothers when I was in 7th grade and I just thought that was the best.
JF: Was the comedy of the Marx Brothers and the comedy at the dinner table in a similar vein?
DP: Yeah, the dinner table was pretty much a good time. We had dinner together every night and entertained one another.
JF: When did you know you wanted to be a performer?
DP: That's an interesting question. I'm not sure. I never thought it was a possibility. That was not something that was within the realm of options growing up. I never was on a stage until I was in my 20's.
JF: Why didn't it seem like an option?
DP: It was nothing I ever had any access to. Our families were represented in many different areas, the trades, professions, things like that, but no one was in entertainment. It just wasn't something anyone had experience in.
JF: What did you think your career might be like as a kid or a teenager? Were you drawn to the arts at all?
DP: I wasn't really. I enjoyed goofing around, but I never seriously thought about it. It was something to kind of goof around with, that's all. That's the way it was treated. It was something to do outside, while you're going about the business of your life. That's all there was, so I adopted that attitude as well.
JF: How did you get introduced to improv comedy?
DP: My oldest brother Tom was in Law School and decided to take some improv classes, because he thought it would be useful to him in court, to be more comfortable in front of people. My mother said 'go with him.' I did. This was the Players Workshop at Second City, Joe Forsberg school. I took my first class from Judy Morgan. She was in the cast at Second City with Harold Ramis, John Belushi, Joe Flaherty, Brian Doyle-Murray, one of those great casts. She was excellent herself. She had a real love for improvisation, and I was hooked.
JF: What year was that?
DP: Probably 1980. I was probably 20.
JF: Were you going to school around there?
DP: I was. I was going to Loyola University by that time. I was studying Philosophy.
JF: What influence did that first class or those first classes at Player's Workshop make on you?
DP: It was my introduction. It opened my eyes, then I read the book 'Something Wonderful Right Away' by Jeffrey Sweet. I had always heard of Second City, but I had never seen it. I started becoming a bit of the student of the stuff, because I really was thrilled by it and I never had any experience like that. And Judy Morgan was just the best.
JF: I've heard that the classes at Player's Workshop really focused on the basics. Did you enjoy that or did you become frustrated at some point and want more?
DP: That's all I knew. I didn't know it was the basics. I had nothing else to compare it to. Had I been elsewhere and a bit more experienced before going there, I don't think that's the correct order. I think this was just right. And it's always just the teacher. Depending on who you're with [determines] whether or not you're going to learn anything useful. Judy Morgan was a seasoned performer at Second City and a sketch performer and an improviser, so she was speaking from experience. It's not often that you find that, unfortunately.
JF: Did your experience at Second City start to change what you thought what your career might be?
DP: This little bit? No, I ended up taking the [rest of the Player's Workshop] classes. My brother actually had to take time off because he was in Law School, so I continued on my own. At the end of the class, you do your own little show at Second City on the Mainstage; that was the first stage I was ever on. It was on a Sunday afternoon. You've written your own sketches. It was what it was, and I just loved it. I was also in Loyola at the time. It took over all my time, because it took over all my interest. I didn't care about the classes I was going to, other than improv classes.
JF: Wow. So, when did you start performing on a regular basis? Were there really options to perform?
DP: Oh, that was the end for me. I went to the end, then kind of stopped. We kind of had a little group together out of our class from that, but we never really worked. We never really did anything. We got together a couple of times that was it. I was at Loyola and had to finish that. I ended up going out of the country. ...It's just the weirdest set of circumstances, and coincidences. ...So, I go to Italy to go to school over there for a while, and I meet this guy on the plane, and we ended up being roommates over there, and it's Joel Murray. We ended up performing together for the next 10 years.
I guess the first thing we did over there was beg for money on the streets, doing juggling, then there was a little talent show or something so we wrote a couple sketches. I was supposed to go for a semester and ended up staying a year. When we got back, Joel and I performed a little bit together, then he received some advice from one of his brothers to 'find Del, if you want to continue with this kind of thing.' So, I was the beneficiary of some of advice that Joel got.
We went together to find Del, and we ended up having to audition to get into the classes he was running. I didn't know anything about who Del was, just some guy that Bill Murray said his brother should study with, that was the only thing I knew. We improvised a scene for the class for the other classmates and Del, and we were allowed to stay. That happened to be the time when Del was trying to come up with a long-form improvisation. Up until that point, long-form improvisation was used to generate material in a rehearsal setting. He was trying to come up with a long-form that would be used as a performance in itself.
JF: So you were in that class?
DP: Yes, we were trying to come up with a format that would work as an evening of entertainment. I want to make clear we didn't come up with it. Del came up with it. He just had us try certain things. We were used by him to hone this idea. It's not like we were all sitting around 'hey, how can we do this?' We didn't know what we were doing. We just did what we were told. At least I didn't know what I was doing. Maybe some of these guys did.
JF: So this was the Harold?
DP: Yup, we were doing it for a few months upstairs before it ever got onstage. We were just doing it in workshops, before there was an audience.
JF: What was the Harold like at that early stage?
DP: Del was trying to determine a structure for it. It was easy to be given a specific or obtuse theme, then just to improvise on it, using scenes, monologues and games, then also integrating the idea of the time dash. Those were all the elements that he wanted to be working with, so those were the ideas that we tried. He'd come in with other ideas, like the idea of competition, which he got I believe from reading Greek myths, suggesting that the heroes are only the heroes during battle. You can't be a hero without some sort of extraordinary situation. We can artificially create that situation by calling it a competition. Then [came] the idea of the structure of 3 to 5 scenes, then a game, 3 then scenes then a game, then the final 3 scenes. That's what we ended up with. There was a time when we had somebody as the narrator, standing off [to the side of the stage], not participating as an actor in the scenes, but watching them and being the story-teller, things like that. Trying to determine the right size for the group. It all ended up boiling down to the simple structure of the Harold.
JF: It's interesting. Now when we're taught the Harold, at least when I started, it seems like 'ok, this is it. And this is a really time tested structure,' as if it's scientifically proven, but it seems like you guys were just trying whatever.
DP: Well, it was put together through trial and error, that seemed to be the best way to go about it. The reason that there's a structure is that it seemed to get too scattered. It seemed to wander too much. It's also putting a frame on a picture. We have to work within this frame work. If you don't have a frame, there's no end to the picture. You have to understand structure, before you can break the structure, that too.
JF: So, were there certain things that were obvious failures? Like the competition aspect? Or the narrator?
DP: The competition aspect was actually one that stuck. The narrator did not. The narrator on occassion would be used too, but more in the game rather than in the entire piece. They all kind of evolved into what it has become. Also, the openings, we always had those. When I was starting, we were always trying to figure out the best way to do an opening, because the opening, as we were taught, defines the blocks that you're allowed to build with. You're not allowed to build with anything that wasn't from the opening. Again, there's too many options unless you constrain yourself in some way. There's, therefore, then no focus.
JF: What were some of the openings you guys were working with?
DP: A series of monologues. A word association, which came out of the idea of the missing joke. I don't know if you're familiar with that idea?
JF: No.
DP: You'd go along and you'd do a word association, but rather than saying one person saying 'black' and the next person saying 'white.' You'd skip 'white,' because everyone knows that one. You'd say [something like] 'milk' and skip the white. Del was trying to get us to do not the first thing, but the second equally, more interesting thing, and more honest. We weren't trying to fabricate or be clever about what the next step would be. The first step doesn't get us anywhere. It merely comments on the earlier thing. So this idea was trying to move it forward a step. Does that make sense?
JF: Yeah, it does. Why do you think things like that were important to Del? Were they part of a bigger scheme that he saw for improv? Like trying to go with your subconscious more or something like that?
DP: Well, a lot of it was just pragmatic. I really do think that many of these things were to make it more interesting to everyone involved, the audience and the performer. If we go a, b, c, d, e, that's somewhat interesting, but if we go a, c, f, that's more interesting. [It was] being more respectful to the audience, that they understand.
JF: What happened after there? I heard that Charna Halpern stepped in and helped develop the Harold.
DP: Charna and Del were in business already at this time. Charna was formerly in business with David Shepard, doing the Improv Olympics, then she was hooked up with Del. Del taught class every Monday night, sometimes more. Sometimes there were Wednesday night classes. Once you were accepted into class, you just went. There was no 8 week whatever. He'd collect money every once in a while, but there was no graduation. If you're interested, you're going to be interested in this. Teams were put together to perform this Harold. Even still, we'd get together on Monday nights, and Del would come with new ideas having seen the shows of the week. We'd try those things, and we'd try those things in the subsequent shows. We'd workshop them on Monday and on Wednesday and Saturday we'd try to integrate them into a performance.
JF: Who were some of the people in that early workshop with you?
DP: Joel Murray, Chris Barnes, JJ Jones, Howard Johnson, Honor Finnegan, Mark Beltzman. That was our group. Then there were other folks. Jeff Jenna, a stand-up, Joey Guiteriez, who was a stand-up at the time. He's a big shot tv producer now. Who else was there? Ah, I don't know.
JF: Did you have the feeling you were doing something really adventurous at the time?
DP: No, we just loved it. We didn't really know what we were doing. Everybody was really thrilled by it, and wanted to get better at it. Well, not everybody. The guys that we were hanging around with all did. Then there were people who did it as a lark or a hobby or some thing to do on one night a week. Del said that's great too. I think the idea was the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Magic can occur with this group. It's something that could not occur individually.
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